Metal betrayers...

[big mouth]

Hey recently I conducted a very interesting interview with Lee Altus and we talked about the subject of hzaving people who started as 'die hard/ pure Metal musicians' but after acouple of years totally changed their minds on the music and played crap as a result.... betrayers I call this and i have total disrespect -more and more- for those guys... some names comes to mind..obvious ones Craig Locicero, MORDRED dudes, Russ Anderson etc etc.... what's your feelings on this....

[Michael@SacredMetal]

Well, I throw the name "Michael Kiske" into the pit. He said in some interviews in the past how stupid we, the Metalfans, are and how hilarious the scene - and he'ss constantly working with Metalmusicians and recording Rock-/Metal-CDs.

[Ice-B]

What does Lee Altus say about "Die Krupps" in this respect? He also seems to have betrayed for quite a while...

Personally I don't like this "Betrayer"-stuff at all, let people do what they like, that would be more "metal" than crying about a shrinking scene, which is betrayed by it's own (former) heroes...

[Stormbringer]

Anyone who have a theory why it's especially so common with US guys who feel they have to keep up to date with all the latest trends instead of keeping the style that once got them the recognition they have?!?

I can understand that musicians prefer their newer material over stuff they did in the 80's in their teens as they feel they have progressed so much since then etc, but why do some completely turn their back on their past?

Makes you wonder how many of the 80's (thrash) bands we all love who only had that style because it was popular at the time, doesn't it?

[EricStav]

Besides the obvious sell-outs/metal betrayers like METALLICA, MEGADETH, CELTIC FROST, etc., one band that I used to WORSHIP in their old days who have totally sold out is the once-mighty SLAYER. To my ears, everything after "Seasons In The Abyss" is just pure CRAP! These days at times, SLAYER almost sound like a nu-metal band with Tom Araya sounding nothing like he did in the old days. All SLAYER seem to care about these days is what lame soundtrack they can get one of their equally lame songs on. And don't even get me started with Kerry King and his clothing line lol..Yeah how "metal" ahaha.
In regards to StormBringer's comments, unfortunately here in America, it is all about embracing whatever the latest trend is. In the U.S., there just isn't a big feeling of "loyalty" to things like there is in Europe and such; that is why real metal is totally dead here in America, except of course for a certain number of diehard metal fans. For years I have kept hearing about metal making a comeback in America, but I just don't think it is ever going to happen. Metal was absolutely HUGE here in the U.S. in the 80s, but in the 90's, grunge/alternative became the latest trend and caused the real metal to go underground. I think I may have to move to Germany one day where metal is still appreciated. America..the land of the "trendies."

[Hugin]

I also totally hate the "betrayer"-concept. I personally respect artists for doing WHAT THEY WANT. If I like it... great! If I don't... well, my bad! On the other hand, I don't like former Metal artists badmouthing the Metal scene like Halford, Kiske, and many others used to do. That sucks. They should know whom they should be grateful for the money they earn. On the other hand I always respect that musicians need artistic freedom and I don't think that fans have a right to try and push them in any directions. Let the musicians do what they want, and decide for yourself whether you like it, or not. No badmouthing and accusations needed on either side.

[big mouth]

Well I thought about Lee Altus as well but in his case he brought Metal in DIE KRUPPS so that's different to me... SLAYER of course totally betrayed their fans with "diabolus.." and whazt followed.... the one band that I thought they'll never do did..
Another interesting case is Kelly SHaefer formerly of RAVAGE/ATHEIST.... when you see what the boy does now.... more than ridiculous.

By the way I'm sorry but I feel betrayed when somebody says how Metal he is and shit, how heavier they are in the beginning then after a couple of albums turns their back on their original music.... I don't call that artists but jerks, assholes, betrayers.... or people suddendly recall that they use to play old Metal and try to return to it when all they were doing was trechno crap...I'm thinking abouyt a particular L.A. act who claim they are totally Metal and stuff nowadays when a certain mrember 7 years was doing nothing but crap instead of sticking to his guns EVEN if that style wasn't de rigueur....

[Hugin]

I like "Diabolus In Musica" and I also like MORDRED... Never felt betrayed by them.

[OSMRECORDS]

That is an interesting debate. Always has been for me. I mean some bands try to make money and change the music to do so (way to many to mention). Some of them are forced by the record company to do that.

Almost every metal band we liked had a record or two that tried to go mainstream. Even Vio-Lence tried to sell out with Nothing to Gain, hence the big change in Sean's singing.

It is sad to see unfortunately all to common.

[Ulle]

I don't think all bands do it just because of money or their record companies. It's no secret that most of the bands don't know that much about the underground scene we are a part of. Maybe some of them really change their tastes in music (or they think so) just because they always listen to the wellknown stuff and think it would sound cool to integrate new influences.

I wouldn't call them betrayers because I think 99% of all metal musicians play the style they like. I don't think that f.e. Robb Flynn likes his early stuff more than the stuff he did with Machine Head and changed the music because of money. IMO he sees Machine Head as a kind of evolution compared to Vio-Lence and to be honest: At the time when he founded MH this kind of "Neo-Thrash" wasn't popular at all. I personally don't like it, lots of people do - that's my opinion.

[Metal Beer Horror]

Honestly this "betrayal" stuff doesn't matter to me because I like what I like and I buy what I like. If someone from a metal band decides to "sell out" thats fine with me...I stop buying their product and I check out other bands. No big deal!

The United Staes sucks,folks. The fact is that people aren't trying to support ANY kind of music which is not "mainstream"...they don't want provocative lyrics or controversy...they want ther same old bullshit they've been force-fed all their lives by MTV,VH1,Soda Commercials and Top 40 radio. American children are basically brain-washed by what they are exposed to and nobody dares leave the "mainstream" out of fear of being ostracized and labeld an "outcast" now at days. It makes me sick but it is unfortunatley the truth and I know Erik-Stav can back me up on that.

Since this is about betrayals I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Rob Halford,claiming that "metal is dead" right before he went and did his TWO project with Trent Reznor.

A local college station,WSOU,has sold out hard as well. They USED to play non-stop metal but now when I listen to the station they're playing bands which are just bound to break through to the mass audience.

[Jeff Ulmer]

I think it depends what you mean by "betray". If an artist's style changes over their development, I have no problem with that - it doesn't mean I have to like what they are doing, but following one's artistic vision is a good thing. If the reason for a change is external - record company pressure, or trying to be more "commercial" (which more often than not will both alienate existing fans and fail to accomplish its goal), then I don't know that I can agree with the idea. That said, I have a dislike of bands who try to remain "commercial" by simply rehashing a formula that has worked in the past, it leads to dull, uninspired, and predictable results. How many metal bands kept churning out the same old thing just to remain popular, instead of trying to innovate?

You may not like what a band like Metallica is doing, but I would hardly say they betrayed their fans, if anything, they championed the cause and brought harder music to millions more listeners, which in turn opened the door for thousands of other bands who you might never have heard of otherwise. No, it isn't the same music they were playing when they were 16, but I would hope that a band's music grows with the people playing it, not stagnating in a certain place and time.

If, however, an artist is playing a certain style of music soley for money (which they'd have to be pretty misinformed to think they could do in the metal genre), then I think it would be pretty evident in the end result.

There are exceptions, which in some cases are necessary. If a band needs a single to both bring attention and increase their following (and hopefully some financial benefit as well), then I can't really argue against it if the alternative is to dwindle into oblivion from lack of support. Using Priest as an example, I can tolerate the odd Another Thing Coming given the wealth of other material they have produced. To cite an artist outside the genre, David Bowie admits he cashed in on the Let's Dance album and those around it, but he has returned to his creative roots since then, but gained a much larger audience as a result. Did he betray his fans? I don't think so, since he is still making music.

[pepsiswasp]

Well, I throw the name "Michael Kiske" into the pit. He said in some interviews in the past how stupid we, the Metalfans, are and how hilarious the scene - and he'ss constantly working with Metalmusicians and recording Rock-/Metal-CDs.

How about Pestilence's guitarist Patrick Mameli?
When they released the Spheres album in 1993, he even called the original Pestilence fans a bunch of morons in several interviews (e.g. Aardschok)!
The guy was going to convert to a jazz guitarist (imagine, his fellow band members said Mameli couldn't even read music notes at the times!).
For him, Death metal was nothing more than a gimmick, he said ...
If you understand the Dutch language, I can send you some of the mentioned interviews.
Anybody knows what became of the guy?

[Heavy Metal Holocaust]

For me, they are all betrayers and liars, and all of them can go and fuck off. I can understand the word evolution, but for me, a proper evolution has to be developed inside your own style. For example Judas Priest, a band that was always progressing through the 70´s and the 80´s, but after Painkiller they lost their way, specially Glenn Tipton, and Jugulator and Demoliton are albums released by a bunch of out of phase ancients who think that they will have his place in the trend.
If you want to change your style of music, great, but CHANGE YOUR NAME ALSO, don´t deceive your fans, and let them notice with a first look at your new album that you don´t want them to hear your new piece of music, we can save lots of money, or spending it in a true and powerful Heavy Metal band that really deserves it.
They take a chance on their name but they change their style, being sure that the old fans of the band will buy the record, and they talk about the so called evolution. Opportunism, simply and clear. If you like so much your fucking evolution, you must have enough balls to start a new band, but obviously, it´s more secure to released your new piece of shit under a well known name, even if you have to trick a lot of loyal good old fans, doesn´t matter.
If you don´t keep Heavy Metal pure and conservative, finally it gets corrupted and the true essence of the music you liked is lost forever. We have to bear with all that alternative modern shit and with wimpy and powerless bands like Stratovarius, Nightwish, Hammerfall, Angra, Gamma Ray, Blind Guardian, Powerwolf, Edguy, Metallium, etc. I got to hear themselves calling their bands Power Metal, does this people really know what Power Metal is? Where is the speed, the guitars, the lyrics, the attack, the fury and most of all the POWER and the ATTITTUDE?
They have changed our image, our way, our thoughts and our music, fuck them all.
Let´s keep Heavy Metal pure and true as it has to be. I really mean it.
We should make the next topic about loyal bands who never betrayed like Cirith Ungol, Manilla Road, Anvil, Exciter, Destruction, Metal Church, Cronos and Venom (not talking about Mantas or Abaddon), Raven, King Diamond, Lizzy Borden and lots more, sure.
Now, a black list of some ex metal men and bands:
Judas Priest, Metallica, Michael Kiske, Helloween, Dave Carlo and his "Razor", Annihilator, Kreator, Megadeth, Slayer, Flotsam And Jetsam, Forbidden, Meliah Rage, Anthrax, Vicious Rumors, Overkill, Testament, Coroner, Queensrÿche, Warrel Dane and his horrible Nevermore, Rage, Nuclear Assault, Overkill, Racer X, Sepultura, Artillery, etc. Some of them have returned or are trying to return, and if the next album of any of these bands is good enough, be sure that I will buy it, but the damage is done.

HEAVY METAL SHALL DOMINATE!!!!!!!!

[Ulle]

Artillery, Coroner and Rage are betrayers? Sorry, I don't understand this...