VERMIN interview !

[CHARON]

Some of the SNAKEPIT readers might still remember the US-L.A. band VERMIN, which was active from 1982 to 1984. The band did only one official recording, a 4 song demo, but only the track "Satan's Reign" was completed and found it's way to the metal community (in the trader scene there is also a 3 song rehearsal tape and a bootleg of a Troubadour live performance available). I think today VERMIN is mostly known, because the band had John Cyriis on vocals for a short time, but otherwise there isn't much infos available. In an interview with George Robb (AGENT STEEL, L.S.N., DETENTE fame) in SNAKEPIT No 13, Laurent also tried to get infos on this "somewhat mysterious band" - I think that says all !

Just recently the founder VERMIN member John Cochran updated the band's profil at ENCYCLOPAEDIA METALLUM and contacted me via e-mail to ask for a copy of the Satan's Reign demo track (maybe due to the infos on my profil there). Since I always wanted to get more infos on the band, I just took the chance and compiled some questions for a spontaneous interview. John kindly gave me detailed answers (BIG THANKS TO HIM !!!), which cover pretty much the whole story of the band, so I thought it's a good idea to share it with the SNAKEPIT readers.
- Oliver B. -


- who were the original members and how came the band together ? - who came up with the name VERMIN ?

There is a free advertising paper in LA called The Recycler. They have a very large section for musicians seeking bands, and bands seeking new members. Many, many bands from LA have come together due to ads in The Recycler. In 1982, our original drummer, Craig Hall, had placed an ad in The Recycler looking for a metal guitarist who knew what the NWOBHM (new wave of British heavy metal) was and to play music in that style. I had recently seen Iron Maiden live opening for UFO, and thought that they were fantastic, so I knew what he was talking about. I had also seen Judas Priest and was already a fan. He and I met and agreed to get together for a jam at his house in Manhattan Beach, CA (a suburb of Los Angeles). I asked if he knew a bass player, and he told me that the guy up the street, Dean Coffey, had been jamming with him, and that he'd have him there also. He told me to learn "Wrathchild" by Iron Maiden so we had something to play together, as well as the standards of the day that everyone knew, like Sabbath, UFO, etc. We got together, jammed, drank a case of beer, and decided to start a band. I came up with the name Vermin. I was watching the first Mad Max movie, The Road Warrior, and there was a part where there was a big sign that said "Vermin shall inherit the Earth". I thought it was a cool concept for a metal band, so that's where the name came from. An interesting bit of trivia is that the last guitarist to jam with Craig Hall and Dean Coffey before me was Gilby Clark, later to become a member of Guns n' Roses. We placed another ad in The Recycler seeking a vocalist and another guitarist. Vince Solami came in to auditon for the vocalist slot. He was a very close friend of the band St. Vitus, and sang more in the "doom" style, but quickly adapted to the speed and ferocity for which we eventually became known. We auditioned many guitarists, including one who actually played with Metallica for a while before they ever had a gig. We met Greg Cekalovich through Vince Solami. Greg was much more of a standard hard rock guitarist at the time (very Van Halen, Thin Lizzy), but he was also listening to Venom, Discharge and GBH, so the transition to speed metal/thrash was easy for him. Later on, Craig Hall left and was replaced with Mike Chacon, who was a friend of Greg Cekalvich's.

- who was the main man in the band and who wrote the songs / lyrics ?

I was the main songwriter for the band. The song you have on the demo, "Satan's Reign", as well as "Agents of the Devil", which is on the live bootleg, were the first 2 songs that we worked on, and were the first songs that I ever composed. When Vince Solami came onboard, he had a notebook full of lyrics and ideas, so we built the original set list via my riffs and his lyrics. When John Cyriis came onboard, we kept the original song titles, as well as most of the chorus lyrics, but he insisted on writing his own verses that reflected his ideology/philosophy, etc., which was of course the right thing to do. Greg Cekalovich composed a few of the songs (Lost in Sane Acceptance, The Assasin, Kill 'em All), but the majority were my compositions. He and I composed "Holy War" and "Damned for All Time" together.

- what were the musical influences in the band and were you close to other (local) bands around ?

Our musical influences did not come from anyone locally - it was all from Europe. We listened to Anvil, Venom, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Merycyful Fate, Accept, Motorhead, etc. True heavy metal was something new in LA - the scene was dominated by bands like Motley Crue, Ratt, LA Guns, etc. The first time I saw Metallica was at the Troubadour, and it was on a weeknight! True thrash/speed was still underground and not being played in the clubs yet. A girl named Anita who was very much into metal went to school with Dean Coffey (he was still in high school at the time). She was also friends with Brian Slagel of Metal Blade records. She told Dean that the Troubadour (one of LA's most famous clubs), at Brian Slagel's suggestion, was going to start having metal bands every Monday (it was called "Metal Mondays"), and that they were looking for 2 bands to play the first show, and asked if we were interested. He told her that we'd play. The other band on the bill was Slayer, who later became our very good friends (they thank us on the liner notes of "Haunting the Chapel"). Between us and Slayer, we packed the club. Brian Slagel was there taping everything, looking for new bands to be on the next Metal Massacre albums. It was a very exciting time for all of us. Both Vermin and Slayer went straight to headlining weekend shows at all the major clubs in LA. Slayer was one of the only local acts that we supported 100%, and they supported us. We also liked a band called Savage Grace, who we gigged with too, and Bitch. We were good friends with Ron Cordy, the bass player for Bitch and Overkill, so we supported both of those bands. By support I mean go to their gigs, and party with them as much as possible! More Vodka!

- was there a special concept behind the band did you have a special live show ?

There was no real concept behind the band, except to play fast and heavy. Lyrical concepts typically centered around war, vampires, doom, demons, etc. Our fans were a very large part of our shows - they were the craziest metal heads in LA! In fact, we were eventually banned from playing the Troubadour because they thought our fans were too unruly. My favorite live show was at Ruthies Inn in San Francisco, because Exodus was there to see us. They were very cool, they hung out with us after the show and played us their demo tape. Kirk Hammet had just left, and they were very unhappy about it! I think that was the best show we played, very high energy and a crowd of true headbanging maniacs!

- how did you get Cyriis in the band and did you know his former bands (Sceptre, Abattoir), how was the relation with him, as he was known to be a very special person ?

After about a year, we fired Vince Solami. This was at the suggestion of several people that we trusted (Brian Slagel, Ron Cordy) who told us that we needed a better vocalist that could deliver vocals that were as good as the music being played, and that Vince just wasn't good enough. John Cyriis answered yet another ad in The Recycler. He had just finished jamming with Megadeth, which wasn't a good fit for him (can you imagine Cyriis and Mustaine in the same room together?). I had seen Abbatoir, but I think I had too much to drink so I didn't remember the singer.... ha! I don't think that Sceptre ever gigged, they just did a demo or something. I remember the first time he came to audition for us, we gave him a sheet of paper with some lyrics on it (the song was "The Assasin"). He did one of those high screams, and we just about fell over! He was an amazing talent, a very gifted vocalist. He also has a fantastic imagination for lyrical ideas. He was a great songwriter.

When you ask about him being "a very special person", I think you are referring to his beliefs about UFO's and extraterrestrial life. Yes, John is deep into that stuff. He has very, very strong opinions about the subject. Our relationship was trying at times, he has a very strong personality, so he can be difficult to have a working relationship with. However, his enormous talent and dedication to his craft certainly outweigh his non-mainstream beliefs and quirky personality.

- how many gigs and where did you play live with Cyriis and Vince Solami respectively ?

We played about 2 or 3 times a month for 2 years, half with Vince Solami and half with John Cyriis. I don't know the exact number. Clubs we played at were the Troubadour, Radio City, Madame Wongs, Ruthies Inn, and The Waters.

- where and when was the "Satan's Reign" demo track recorded (line-up ?) and why did you record only one song ?

Brian Slagel asked us to be on the next Metal Massacre album, so we decided to record 4 songs in the studio and let Brian pick which one he wanted. Greg Cekalovich had a friend named Brian Foxworthy who was the recording engineer for a local college. We would go into the college recording studio on the weekends when there were no students around, and record for free. The only thing we had to buy was the tape. It was a 16 track analog deck (there was no digital back then), very basic equipment. The lineup was me/guitar, Greg Cekalovich/guitar, Dean Coffey/bass, Mike Chacon/drums, and John Cyriis/vocals. We recorded 4 songs: Satans Reign, Fear no Evil, Death to Tyrants, and Deadly Kiss. John Cyriis only finished doing vocals on Satans Reign, that's why it's the only track floating around between tape traders - it's the only one that was finished. It got played on some local college radio in LA, and John Cyriis had sent copies to a DJ in New York who was doing a hardcore metal radio show, so it got played there too. John Cyriis quit before he finished doing vocals for the other 3 songs.

- what was the response to the demo - did you get reviews and have you done interviews to promote the band ?

Unfortunately, the demo only had 1 finished song, and John Cyriis had just quit, so there was not much opportunity to shop it around. We didn't want to give Metal Blade a song for a compilation album with a singer who was not in our band anymore. We had one radio interview on local college radio, but John Cyriis had just quit, so there was a lot of joking around about "anyone out there want to sing for us?". Very bad timing!

- where and when was the 3 song rehearsal tape recorded (line-up ?, Vince Solami on vocals ?) [the Rehearsal Demo from the discography at ENCYCLOPAEDIA METALLUM]

I think that was recorded in a rehearsal studio in Redondo Beach, CA. The guys who ran the place had some very basic recording gear. That would have been Vince Solami on vocals, not sure who was playing drums then. If you hear double bass drum, it would be Mike Chacon, as Craig Hall played a single bass drum kit.

- in trade lists one can find a bootleg from a live show at Troubadour (06-01-1984), so what was the complete title list of the gig ?

Vermin - CA. Los Angeles, Troubadour, USA, June 1, 1984
1. Intro
2. Holy War
3. The Assassin
4. Satan's Reign
5. Death to Tyrants
6. Damned for all Time
7. Kill'em All
8. Agents of the Devil
9. Lost Insane Acceptance
10. Fear No Evil
11. Deadly Kiss

- according to the live introduction to the Troubadour gig you already had a deal with Combat records, so how did you get that deal and what happend that there was no album released (did you start to record an album) ?

This is not a very nice part of the story. Brian Slagel was a friend, and had made a commitment with us to be a part of the next Metal Massacre album, and anything we wanted to do in the future, like an EP or full length LP. The entire speed/thrash metal scene in America owes Brian Slagel a huge thanks, it was because of him that the whole genre was able to grow and flourish the way it did. I felt a very strong sense of loyalty to him and respected him immensely. Unfortunately, and the rest of the band was not aware of this, John Cyriis was talking to Combat and Roadrunner. He had this idea that if we got distribution in Europe first, that our album would technically be sold in America as an import, and that fans were all buying imports. If you read old stories about Lars Ulrich, he used to go to the record store every week and buy all the new imports, remember? There weren't any recordings of American metal bands yet to speak of - just the Metal Massacre compilations. Brain Slagel was at that gig where Cyriis mentions Combat records. Now, let me tell you, we didn't know what he was talking about, we were shocked. We just ignored it and finished the set. After the gig, I asked him what that was all about, and he then revealed to me that he had been shopping us with Combat and Roadrunner. Needless to say, we were very upset with him for not discussing this with the band. I phoned Brian Slagel the next day and apologized to him, as we considered him a friend and a supporter of the band. This disagreement with John Cyriis is what ultimately led to him quitting. We believed that a band should function as a team, and decisions should be voted on, etc. What John Cyriis did in shopping other labels when we already had a commitment from Metal Blade went against this philosophy, and damaged our trust in him as a band mate. He quit shortly after this disagreement and went on to form Agent Steel.

- did you also get offers from other labels ? - what would have been the track list for the album ?

We had a commitment from Metal Blade records. The track list most likely would have been the same as the setlist on the live bootleg as detailed above.

- have you writen more songs (titles ?) than the 10 tracks fron the Troubadour gig and did you record more demos or rehearsals and spread them around ?

There were a few other songs that we played that would get dropped in and out of the set list. The clubs used to limit your set time, so if you only had 40 minutes, you had to decide what songs to play that night that would fit within the time specified. We never, ever did an encore. We didn't believe in it; we thought it was stupid. Since we felt we had a relationship with Metal Blade, there was no spreading around of demos. Only Cyriis did that on his own. We never had any problems getting booked; if you were playing at the Troubadour on weekends, that was your ticket into any club in LA. We didn't need a press kit or anything, just the reputation for packing the clubs.

- when and how did the band break up ? - what have you and the other members done after the split of VERMIN ?

Several things contributed to the band splitting up. First, Slayer asked Greg Cekalovich if he would join them in the event that Kerry King went to play with Megadeth full time. Greg asked me for my blessing, and I told him that if they had asked me, I'd be gone in a heartbeat (they had just released their first LP, and were on the road to stardom). So, I knew that I had at least one band mate that was thinking about leaving. Kerry stayed with Slayer, so that was that. Then John Cyriis quit, and we had gigs booked and needed a new singer right away. Greg Cekalovich and Dean Coffey both wanted to take the band in a new direction at that point, more of a punk feel (think Discharge or GBH), and I wanted to stick with the thrash/speed style that we had already established. So, creative differences, combined with frustration and the hassle of getting a new vocalist caused me to quit. A new singer came to rehearsal, named Mike Torres, the day I quit. He sang with them at the very last gig, which was with Slayer at Ruthies Inn in San Francisco. I told them that they could keep playing the songs that I had written, no problem. I sold my gear and quit the music business, got married and had a couple of kids. After that last gig, they split up. Dean Coffey gave up the music business completely, sold his gear to Sherman Jones, who later played with Hirax and Insecticide and now owns Cideshow Studios in LA <a href='http://www.cideshow.com' target='_blank'>http://www.cideshow.com</a>. Dean is now part owner and the brewmaster of Asylum Brewery <a href='http://www.aleasylum.com' target='_blank'>http://www.aleasylum.com</a>. Greg Cekalovich and Mike Chacon went on to form LSN, which means Loud Senseless Noise, and they gigged around LA for a couple of years, and recorded a demo. A lot of the LSN setlist was old Vermin material. After LSN, Cekalovich played with a band called Detente for a while. Mike Chacon then played drums a couple of other bands. John Cyriis went on to form Agent Steel. I haven't played professionally since then, but I do write and record original music in my home studio. I own a real estate appraisal company near Seattle, WA. I have been in contact with Mike Chacon, and we are considering doing a Vermin/LSN compilation CD by re-recording 5 songs from each band. Angelo Espino, formerly of LSN, Reverend, Uncle Slam, and Hirax, has agreed to play bass <a href='http://www.angeloespino.com' target='_blank'>http://www.angeloespino.com</a>. Angelo was a very good friend of the band. We have yet to contact Greg Cekalovich to see if he is interested. The last person we would attempt to contact would be John Cyriis, who, as you probably know, seems to have dissapeared. Getting Cyriis on board will certainly prove to be a challenge!

- did you follow what two of you ex-members did with the band L.S.N. and what do you think about the fact, that they used some VERMIN songs on there demo and especially on live occations ?

I saw Greg Cekalovich and Mike Chacon a few times after the Vermin split, and told them to keep playing the songs. I wanted to see songs that I had written being played by someone, and enjoyed by the fans, regardless if I was in the band or not, or what the name of the band was. They were great songs! I never saw LSN play live; I did hang out at one of their rehearsals and jammed with them a bit just for fun.

- are you still into metal and what are your faves today and do you still listen to early-mid eighties metal ?

I am more into jazz fusion type music now.. I do still listen to metal every day (I have satellite radio). I don't like very many of the new bands, because the vocals are horrible (cookie monster?) and not many guitar solos. I can't tell one singer from another - they all sound the same - like shit. I can tell the difference between Rob Halford, Bruce Dickinson, Geoff Tate, or for that matter John Cyriis immediately. I think that Shadows Fall is good; Disturbed has a fine vocalist, Dragonforce has a fine vocalist and very good guitarists. I like System of a Down, they are very creative and have a distinctive style all their own. Black Label Society - Zakk is awesome. I still listen to Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Slayer, Metallica, COC, and any music from that era that comes on the satellite radio's metal station. If I hear a cookie monster doing vocals, I switch to the jazz station! I compose and record original music in my home studio that is a mix of all of my influences, which include metal, jazz, funk and blues.

[big mouth]

Awesome job!!!!!!!!!

[Prof]

Jeez, where do you freaks dig up this stuff? Great and detailed interview, thanks for the post.
And that 'cookie monster' vocals remark seems to become a running gag in Snakepit. Fitting description for that style of throat (ab)use.

[Stormbringer]

Thanks a lot for posting this. Have been trying to dig up more info about Vermin for years. I did a 7" with LSN last year. I originally got in touch with George Robb to check if he could get me in touch with any of the guys from Vermin. Too bad they never were able to record an album with Cyriis. Holy War is such an awesome song...

[Evil Eye]

Great read about a great band, I hope that a Vermin CD will be released.
Funny how Cyriis seems to have disappeared again, maybe he has been caught by some extraterrestrial forces because he knew too much about them.

[big mouth]

Just to clear up things for those looking for VERMIN stuff, here?s everything that existed on VERMIN back then :

Troubadour 10/17/83 (opening for SHELLSHOCK)
Demo 84 (Satan?s Reign)
Troubadour 6/1/84
Ruthies Inn 6/23/84 (opening for POSSESSED, EXODUS, SLAYER)
Rehearsal 11/84
KXLU interview 11/20/84

[steelreign]

Wow! That was fuckin excellent!!! Laurent, we need to put this in the new issue.... Great job! OK, so who wants to burn me a copy of that VERMIN stuff, since my trader cassette copy is completely wasted after all these years?!

[Stormbringer]

Just to clear up things for those looking for VERMIN stuff, here?s everything that existed on VERMIN back then :

Troubadour 10/17/83 (opening for SHELLSHOCK)
Demo 84 (Satan?s Reign)
Troubadour 6/1/84
Ruthies Inn 6/23/84 (opening for POSSESSED, EXODUS, SLAYER)
Rehearsal 11/84
KXLU interview 11/20/84

Damn! I have never seen those Troubadour '83 and Ruthie's Inn '84 shows & the KXLU interview on any lists - ever!

Vermin, Possessed, Exodus & Slayer back in 1984 - best bill for a show ever?!?

[Stormbringer]

Great read about a great band, I hope that a Vermin CD will be released.
Funny how Cyriis seems to have disappeared again, maybe he has been caught by some extraterrestrial forces because he knew too much about them.

I asked George Robb if he knew of the whereabouts of Cyriis and he said he had heard something of him living in Japan these days!?!

[Guest_big mouth]

Damn! I have never seen those Troubadour '83 and Ruthie's Inn '84 shows & the KXLU interview on any lists - ever!

Yeah.. i used to have that stuff but it's all gone from my collection... I think.P. Soppe still has that Ruthies Inn show though....

Vermin, Possessed, Exodus & Slayer back in 1984 - best bill for a show ever?!?

Holy shit, I always thought it was one of the finest Metal bill ever! Especially since all the bands were at their prime!!!!! UNREAL!!!!!!

I asked George Robb if he knew of the whereabouts of Cyriis and he said he had heard something of him living in Japan these days!?!

Chuck Proffus told me he heard he was fishing somewhere between Japan, Brazil or whatever..nobody really know.. at least we know his real name, Jean Pierre Camps.

[VerminLSN]

Hey Metalheads, John C. from Vermin/L.S.N. here, just wanted to let you all know that we have a myspace page now, located at:

<a href='http://www.myspace.com/verminlsn' target='_blank'>http://www.myspace.com/verminlsn</a>

There's some band history there, as well as some photos, etc. We've recently discovered a long lost video, which was in poor shape (20 year old VHS tape), but it has been transferred to digital. The audio quality is not too bad, so hopefully we'll have some more live rarities to share. Sorry Cyriis worshippers, Vince is the vocalist on this one!

Keep thrashin'!

JC

[Guest_big mouth]

Welcome on board John!!!!!!!